Ok, so lately I have been thinking a lot about going turbo. I finally got back in a DA about a month ago, and since I have had it I really want to boost it. It is my DD. It’s the only car I have for now. The motor in the car currently is a B18A1 with 200k miles on it. If I go turbo, I’ll probably rebuild it. Would I be able to keep A/C? Not so much concerned about P/S but it would be nice to keep. How reliable are our cars when turbo’d? And by that I mean is it going to break down once a week? Am I going to have a bunch of problems out of it? I know there are a lot of factors that determine some of that, but if it’s done right and not beat on every moment, is it still gonna be reliable? I haven’t really researched FI before so I don’t know what all goes in to it. Any words of wisdom would be just dandy.
I have wondered about this myself many times.
I can imagine that engine wear would be greater from the higher compression all around.
but i see other teg owners running some low (6psi? i cant remember) turbo on totally stock engines and they don’t seem to have any problems. i guess the low boost in compression isn’t THAT big of a strain?
our cars are going to last as long as they last, it doesn’t concern me too much. but i dont need sudden or reoccurring problems that i normally wouldn’t have.
that, and the cost of going turbo is all that is standing in my way.
I also wouldn’t want to lose my AC & PS since the AC is still r12 and cold as hell, and the power steering rack is new and sooo nice. (still wish i put a manual rack in though, didn’t know i could do that till i joined this forum.)
Keeping AC/PS is completely dependent on what turbo manifold you run. There are manifolds out there that are designed to retain the factory AC/PS systems, but you will lose a little bit of efficiency simply due to the fact that the manifold is built ‘around’ those components rather than having strictly performance/efficiency in mind.
As far as how dependable the engine/turbo will be really is going to be determined by:
- the health of your motor
- the health of the turbo (ie if it is made by a reputable company and if it is maintained properly)
- one of the biggest things will be the TUNE. This can make or break your build. It is definitely the most important aspect of any build, whether NA or Turbo.
Boosting a stock motor that has 200k miles on it isnt the wisest thing… Its more a question of “when” will it blow, not “if”.
There are certain things you can skimp on when going turbo, but you will lose out on efficiency (POWER). Those things that you can skimp on are:
-
Turbo Manifold. Cheaper units won’t flow as well as expensive ones, and depending on what they’re made of, can be prone to cracking due to the heavy turbo and thin gauge of the metal used for the manifold.
-
Intercooler. You can use a cheap one, but it won’t flow as well as an expensive one, therefore it will limit the amount of power you’ll be able to extract from it.
Things that should NOT be skimped on are:
-
The turbo itself. You can use a cheap/no-name one, but the likely hood of it leaking after a short time is very high. Also the cheaper ones usually arent rebuildable, so once it starts leaking, kiss it goodbye.
-
Fuel Delivery. A decent fuel pump and injectors are a must. Fuel ratios are extremely important when turbo’ing your car. Running lean is a big no no and will cause damage much faster than running lean on an NA motor.
-
Tuning, Tuning, TUNING! This is a top priority on any build. If the tuner doesnt know what he’s doing, dont expect a great turn-out on your setup as far as power or engine life/durability.
-
Piston choice. You dont need to go uber low with your compression (8.0:1) as your low-end power will suffer… You want something that will have nice response when out of boost, but not high enough to where it limits your boost abilities. Shoot for somewhere around 10:1. This also falls into the category of tuning. The higher compression, the more tricky it is to get things dialed in perfectly.
You mention reliability and longevity… Well, obviously running boost and high-rpm is going to cause accelerated wear on the internals of your engine, but as long as the motor is built to handle what you want to throw at it, then you should be good.
On average, a healthy, STOCK LS motor can put down about 300whp with a good flowing system and a great tune. A healthy, stock B16 can throw down about 350whp and be good. You can hit about 400whp on a stock B16 but the reliability goes down significantly.
In an LS the rod bolts are the weak point… If you went in and replaced the rod bolts, main bolts, threw some good head studs in and new bearings and piston rings (basically a light rebuild) you should be perfectly fine running 300whp and have it be reliable.
unified bring’s up good points. The biggest failure of turbos is poor/dirty oil. If you go turbo make sure that you are anal about oil changes.
[QUOTE=unified112;2168936]Keeping AC/PS is completely dependent on what turbo manifold you run. There are manifolds out there that are designed to retain the factory AC/PS systems, but you will lose a little bit of efficiency simply due to the fact that the manifold is built ‘around’ those components rather than having strictly performance/efficiency in mind.
As far as how dependable the engine/turbo will be really is going to be determined by:
- the health of your motor
- the health of the turbo (ie if it is made by a reputable company and if it is maintained properly)
- one of the biggest things will be the TUNE. This can make or break your build. It is definitely the most important aspect of any build, whether NA or Turbo.
Boosting a stock motor that has 200k miles on it isnt the wisest thing… Its more a question of “when” will it blow, not “if”.
There are certain things you can skimp on when going turbo, but you will lose out on efficiency (POWER). Those things that you can skimp on are:
-
Turbo Manifold. Cheaper units won’t flow as well as expensive ones, and depending on what they’re made of, can be prone to cracking due to the heavy turbo and thin gauge of the metal used for the manifold.
-
Intercooler. You can use a cheap one, but it won’t flow as well as an expensive one, therefore it will limit the amount of power you’ll be able to extract from it.
Things that should NOT be skimped on are:
-
The turbo itself. You can use a cheap/no-name one, but the likely hood of it leaking after a short time is very high. Also the cheaper ones usually arent rebuildable, so once it starts leaking, kiss it goodbye.
-
Fuel Delivery. A decent fuel pump and injectors are a must. Fuel ratios are extremely important when turbo’ing your car. Running lean is a big no no and will cause damage much faster than running lean on an NA motor.
-
Tuning, Tuning, TUNING! This is a top priority on any build. If the tuner doesnt know what he’s doing, dont expect a great turn-out on your setup as far as power or engine life/durability.
-
Piston choice. You dont need to go uber low with your compression (8.0:1) as your low-end power will suffer… You want something that will have nice response when out of boost, but not high enough to where it limits your boost abilities. Shoot for somewhere around 10:1. This also falls into the category of tuning. The higher compression, the more tricky it is to get things dialed in perfectly.
You mention reliability and longevity… Well, obviously running boost and high-rpm is going to cause accelerated wear on the internals of your engine, but as long as the motor is built to handle what you want to throw at it, then you should be good.
On average, a healthy, STOCK LS motor can put down about 300whp with a good flowing system and a great tune. A healthy, stock B16 can throw down about 350whp and be good. You can hit about 400whp on a stock B16 but the reliability goes down significantly.
In an LS the rod bolts are the weak point… If you went in and replaced the rod bolts, main bolts, threw some good head studs in and new bearings and piston rings (basically a light rebuild) you should be perfectly fine running 300whp and have it be reliable.[/QUOTE]
That’s kind of what I was thinking. Light rebuild with new pistons should leave it ok. If I do take the plunge, I’ll probably keep it under 250 whp. I know I guy who had a DC teg with a bonestock LS motor and he turbo’d it and was pushing 220 on stock everything and said it was a blast to drive. I’m not looking for high HP just a little more oomph on the street. I know I know, a little is never enough. I’ll always want more. I know. But, I look at it as 220 is more than the 140 stock. It’ll be fun for a while. Now if
I go turbo, I won’t be skimping. I don’t believe in no name parts, or parts with had reputations. I understand the basics of a turbocharger system, however I don’t understand the turbocharger itself. I see people throw around t3/t4 or .57 trim And all that. What the hell does it mean? If you can point me to a good beginners turbo guide, besides the one on here, I’d appreciate it. Oh yeah, is it better/cheaper to piece a turbo kit together or buy a kit from rev hard or something like that?
[QUOTE=unified112;2168936]Keeping AC/PS is completely dependent on what turbo manifold you run. There are manifolds out there that are designed to retain the factory AC/PS systems, but you will lose a little bit of efficiency simply due to the fact that the manifold is built ‘around’ those components rather than having strictly performance/efficiency in mind.
As far as how dependable the engine/turbo will be really is going to be determined by:
- the health of your motor
- the health of the turbo (ie if it is made by a reputable company and if it is maintained properly)
- one of the biggest things will be the TUNE. This can make or break your build. It is definitely the most important aspect of any build, whether NA or Turbo.
Boosting a stock motor that has 200k miles on it isnt the wisest thing… Its more a question of “when” will it blow, not “if”.
There are certain things you can skimp on when going turbo, but you will lose out on efficiency (POWER). Those things that you can skimp on are:
-
Turbo Manifold. Cheaper units won’t flow as well as expensive ones, and depending on what they’re made of, can be prone to cracking due to the heavy turbo and thin gauge of the metal used for the manifold.
-
Intercooler. You can use a cheap one, but it won’t flow as well as an expensive one, therefore it will limit the amount of power you’ll be able to extract from it.
Things that should NOT be skimped on are:
-
The turbo itself. You can use a cheap/no-name one, but the likely hood of it leaking after a short time is very high. Also the cheaper ones usually arent rebuildable, so once it starts leaking, kiss it goodbye.
-
Fuel Delivery. A decent fuel pump and injectors are a must. Fuel ratios are extremely important when turbo’ing your car. Running lean is a big no no and will cause damage much faster than running lean on an NA motor.
-
Tuning, Tuning, TUNING! This is a top priority on any build. If the tuner doesnt know what he’s doing, dont expect a great turn-out on your setup as far as power or engine life/durability.
-
Piston choice. You dont need to go uber low with your compression (8.0:1) as your low-end power will suffer… You want something that will have nice response when out of boost, but not high enough to where it limits your boost abilities. Shoot for somewhere around 10:1. This also falls into the category of tuning. The higher compression, the more tricky it is to get things dialed in perfectly.
You mention reliability and longevity… Well, obviously running boost and high-rpm is going to cause accelerated wear on the internals of your engine, but as long as the motor is built to handle what you want to throw at it, then you should be good.
On average, a healthy, STOCK LS motor can put down about 300whp with a good flowing system and a great tune. A healthy, stock B16 can throw down about 350whp and be good. You can hit about 400whp on a stock B16 but the reliability goes down significantly.
In an LS the rod bolts are the weak point… If you went in and replaced the rod bolts, main bolts, threw some good head studs in and new bearings and piston rings (basically a light rebuild) you should be perfectly fine running 300whp and have it be reliable.[/QUOTE]
what he said. a healthy stock b18a/b could handle 200-240whp easily and be reliable. at 300whp (which is what i had) it’s a question of when will it blow.
very very very very helpful.
Ok well I guess for me the next logical step is research and see what works well and what doesn’t and decide how I want to go about going turbo. This oughta be fun. I like having something new to dream about!
What I recommend, is stay stock get the parts tune for the MAX you can get out of it, and then turn the boost down for DD and crank it back up when you know you’ll beat on it, like at the track, etc. It still has the chance of blowing, but not as much as always running on stock internals with the maximum power your setup can put out.
Be sure to buy a quailty turbo kit also. Peak Boost has always served me well in the past and swapping to a 99 si civic’s A/C compressor and brackets they have a kit to keep PS and A/C for DA’s. There’s so much to boosting a car that it takes a lot of reading and many hours wrenching on the car to figure out what works and what doesn’t. As said above TUNNING is number one for reliablity. Followed closely by the build. There was a guy here pushing 307hp on a stock 197k mile ls all day long. Car has a new owner and 221k miles on it now still showing good compression numbers across the board and still pushing 307hp to the wheels.
On the flip side Ive seen a lower mile LS pushing 275hp to the wheels and a few weeks later throw a rod. IMO it was poor tunning (was too lean) and stupid high RPMs for an LS as the driver was a retard. Me I am paranoid and want to know what I built can handle my abusive driving habits with boost. Sleeve the block and full forged internals with ARP holding it together along with a trusted tunner makes me feel warm and fuzzy. The price tag for it doesn’t.
Other school of thought is LS engines are cheap so boost it stock and no worries if you blow it they are cheap and swap another in. I just get tired of working on cars and swapping motors so this isnt my idea of warm fuzzy feeling.
^ Valid points made here.
Well my thinking is I can do a light rebuild as mentioned above, boost it and keep the whp around 220, and if something were to blow up, I can get an ls shortblock for cheap or even have one on hand if I can find a good deal on one and have some extra cash. I’m not looking for 300 whp. I’m looking tops 250 since it’s my DD but I figure if I stay around 220 I should be fine. I won’t drive it like a bay out of hell on the street. That’s what tracks are built for. I’d love to build the motor and sleeve it and all that, but that’s just way more money than I can justify right now. I’m gonna do some research and talk to some folks with turbo integra’s and see what I can learn. Probably by early next year I’ll start acquiring different parts that I’ll need once I decide what I wanna go with. Thanks for the info fellas and any input on comanpies and or parts to get or stay away from would be appreciated.
I could care less if you have 10hp, 220hp, or 600hp. If your boosted you have to be tuned properly. It isnt an issue of 220hp or 300hp for reliablilty. It’s an issue of tuned and built right. If your tuned right but have a crap wastegate your going to fight boost creep and possibly over boost and WAMO. If your running crap ebay junk for IC pipes and couplers I’ve seen them flake off and enter a motor WAMO. There’s so much to a boosted setup to call it reliable your talking cash flow.
Buy junk expect junk. Buy quailty and tune with a retard cowboy expect retard cowboy performance and reliability.
2k for a boosted setup is crap. I don’t care what anyone has done or says. Sure you can do it but for how long?. A quailty kit like Peak Boost is going to run you around $3300. You still need injectors, fuel pump, and a fuel management system of some sort. That alone with a good fuel management would add another $1500 easy. Not to mention dyno time and misc parts just to get it up and moving.
bottom line is if you boost and want reliabilty make sure you have deep pockets. If your stock and go cheap then keep it close to home or have triple A on speed dial.
[QUOTE=boost3782;2169230]
Other school of thought is LS engines are cheap so boost it stock and no worries if you blow it they are cheap and swap another in. I just get tired of working on cars and swapping motors so this isnt my idea of warm fuzzy feeling.[/QUOTE]
I forgot to add that most people that think this leave out the part that when it blows your not at home or near your garage and most times have to wait hours or leave the car (which opens it to theft). They also fail to mention that you will have to tow it home and deal with that mess. I for one have walked all I care to walk when I was in the US Amy Infantry and like to not deal with a broke down ride.
[QUOTE=boost3782;2169257]I could care less if you have 10hp, 220hp, or 600hp. If your boosted you have to be tuned properly. It isnt an issue of 220hp or 300hp for reliablilty. It’s an issue of tuned and built right. If your tuned right but have a crap wastegate your going to fight boost creep and possibly over boost and WAMO. If your running crap ebay junk for IC pipes and couplers I’ve seen them flake off and enter a motor WAMO. There’s so much to a boosted setup to call it reliable your talking cash flow.
Buy junk expect junk. Buy quailty and tune with a retard cowboy expect retard cowboy performance and reliability.
2k for a boosted setup is crap. I don’t care what anyone has done or says. Sure you can do it but for how long?. A quailty kit like Peak Boost is going to run you around $3300. You still need injectors, fuel pump, and a fuel management system of some sort. That alone with a good fuel management would add another $1500 easy. Not to mention dyno time and misc parts just to get it up and moving.
bottom line is if you boost and want reliabilty make sure you have deep pockets. If your stock and go cheap then keep it close to home or have triple A on speed dial.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me for not stating my knowledge of cars. I am new to turbo’s, however I am not new to motors.
I’m not buying a kit from peak boost, or rev hard or anything like that. Used parts can be had for a lot less and are still reliable. Ebay is junk. I would NEVER put an Ebay part on something I cared about. Ebay corner markers, sure. Ebay turbo, HELL NO. A tune is the most important part to any swap,turbo, supercharger, etc. I understand that. In my area we have a well known tuner that does wonderful work and has experience mainly in Honda’s and has done sooooooooooo many turbo set ups. I also know a good shop with a dyno that does a good tuning job if I want a dyno tune done. I will use one of these people. I will probably go with the street tune simply because he knows what he’s doing. I know some people that would disagree with that, but he isn’t some retarded cowboy.
Really? Never would have thought of that…NOT. I have had my fair share of break downs and no starts. Like I said, I’m not a newb to cars in general.
I have access to a trailer. And I don’t EVER remember of hearing of anybody in my area having their car stripped down while broken down on the side of the road.
Just a question…
why not have this experienced guy that tunes many hondas, tune your car on the Dyno that you know of? I mean… Sure you will have to pay for the dyno rental, but you will squeeze out the max power numbers and also see how your powerband looks. Regardless of how good of a tuner you have, dyno tuning is the absolute best way of getting a car 100% dialed in.
It sounds like you’re heading in the right direction for the most part. But I would stay away from a used turbocharger. Used IC and manifolds, sure… But the turbo itself, i would feel more comfortable knowing that mine is/was brand new. Thats just my 2cents.
[QUOTE=unified112;2169272]Just a question…
why not have this experienced guy that tunes many hondas, tune your car on the Dyno that you know of? I mean… Sure you will have to pay for the dyno rental, but you will squeeze out the max power numbers and also see how your powerband looks. Regardless of how good of a tuner you have, dyno tuning is the absolute best way of getting a car 100% dialed in. [/QUOTE]
Well, there have been multiple cars that the guy has street tuned and then were taken to a dyno and the tuner at the dyno could not squeeze any more power out of it. That’s the number one reason I would take it straight to him. He has proven over and over that he can tune one just as good as a dyno. IDK, I’ll worry about that decision whenever I start buying parts and what not and have a plan nailed down that I can stick to.
What if I got a good deal on a turbo and had it rebuilt? I know a few people that have done that and there is a guy local I believe that does that kind of work. That was my thought on buying a used one. If that’s not a good idea, then I’ll probably buy a new one.
you’re better off buying a new turbo then to buy a used scrap one and rebuild it. there’s no way of knowing if the shaft is crooked and how damaged it is which in that case the CHRA is scrap so you’ll end up buying a brand new one either way.
as for dyno tuning being the best. that isn’t always true. street tuning is the best but if you don’t have a race track around it’s hard and illegal to do. unless the dyno you tune on puts load on the engine as if you were driving on the street. not all dyno’s do which in that case you need to finalize the tune on the street.
I totally and completely disagree on a street tune being the best. Maybe it depends on the tuner and where his talents and style lay(lie? idk)… Maybe I’m just too used to the way our tuners out here do things… Of course after a dyno session you take it to the street/track to make sure there are no ‘dead spots’ in the power band, but 99.99% of the time there is never any power gained by taking it to the street to tune after being dyno’d. And also, there’s no way to tell what kind of power you’re putting down other than to hit up a dyno and find out… Running through a serial connection to a program on a laptop is somewhat accurate, but not as accurate as a dyno pull.
Not only has my tuner done plenty of Turbo/NA hondas, he can tune prettymuch anything and everything, and has been flown around the country by big names in the 1/4mile game to get tuned by him. He works as a top-fuel mechanic and runs his own 800whp LSVtec Turbo civic into the low 9s/high 8s. Now Im not trying to start an argument or start any crap, moreso rambling than anything… I just want to make sure that everyone gets the most power out of their setup, as safely and efficiently as possible.
That is all…
/rant
[QUOTE=boost3782;2169257]I could care less if you have 10hp, 220hp, or 600hp. If your boosted you have to be tuned properly. It isnt an issue of 220hp or 300hp for reliablilty. It’s an issue of tuned and built right. If your tuned right but have a crap wastegate your going to fight boost creep and possibly over boost and WAMO. If your running crap ebay junk for IC pipes and couplers I’ve seen them flake off and enter a motor WAMO. There’s so much to a boosted setup to call it reliable your talking cash flow.
Buy junk expect junk. Buy quailty and tune with a retard cowboy expect retard cowboy performance and reliability.
2k for a boosted setup is crap. I don’t care what anyone has done or says. Sure you can do it but for how long?. A quailty kit like Peak Boost is going to run you around $3300. You still need injectors, fuel pump, and a fuel management system of some sort. That alone with a good fuel management would add another $1500 easy. Not to mention dyno time and misc parts just to get it up and moving.
bottom line is if you boost and want reliabilty make sure you have deep pockets. If your stock and go cheap then keep it close to home or have triple A on speed dial.[/QUOTE]
bin fcking go, well said