Fuck the semantics, DB2-R81 cant even fucking quote correctly. There’s a fucking quote button, use it.
People like DB2-R81 have ruined the scene. Hands down. They get some decent knowledge and act the way he does making people not want to learn or listen to him.
This thread is full of fail Manny.
Wow… take a break from posting and this type of stuff breaks out. Crazy.
I don’t really want to get involved, but want to help ease the waters here. The white caps are killing me.
First is to Iceman: Relax :). The only person that has to be happy with your build is you. You are taking steps to do it right and that alone should give you peace of mind. When you e-mailed me we talked about reliability and where I stand in relation to LS-CR/VTEC. And if you remember, I kind of took the same stance as J. If you had a B18C block to start with I probably would have worked with that. But that doesn’t go to say that LS/VTECs are unreliable. They can be and if built correctly can gain some ground on the B18C (Figuratively as well as literally). Don’t let the negativity of others put doubt in your decisions. I have built many motors and used to be strongly against LS/CR-VTEC. But after a few friends had very reliable results (and the power and torque to boot) it has hard to deny. Also I got tired of turning people away because I wouldn’t do the conversion. So I started doing the conversions.
J…
What can I say about this guy? He means well and gave great feedback. If you can’t see that read closer. This is the guy that I turn to when I don’t know the answer (I like to think the opposite is true… but he knows more than me so there you have it).
DB2 (Marc)…
We of all people know how tempers can flare over the internet 
. Marc knows his shit as well and we go way back. He’s probably raced (successfully I might add) more years than most people on this board have been driving. I’m an old guy too so don’t make any old guy comments here people.
I could go on about the differences between VTEC and non-VTEC blocks, but it’s really counterproductive and just fuel to the flame at this point. We know the differences and Honda had good reasons for the changes. With that said, I know many that have LS/VTECs with 50,000 miles or more on them. Does that make them reliable? Reliable enough until you get bored and want something else :rockon:. If it breaks, build another. I have and is to be credited to much of my knowledge to date. I don’t regret a single build… even if my pocketbook did on occasion.
There once was a time when guys like J., Marc, and Dan would speak and the rest of us would listen. It’s sad to see those times are long gone.
I’m still listening! J. and Dan are my go-to guys when I need answers…
Awesome, everyone made up… sorta. So Iceman, I’m definitely interested. Especially if your engine is going to be anywhere near as tense as this thread has started off. Please keep us posted.
Blake
Hopefully at least the shortblock gets assembled this weekend. I might actually get some grease under my fingernail for once in my life. Wait… Scratch that. Manny will be doing the dirty work. I guess I will remain at fresh face status forever.
:werd:
Dan I appreciate your comments I really do. I’ve respected you for a long time and in fact, your car is the main inspiration for my build. Yours is the reason I bought a DB2 in the first place. I truly hope that none of this or what I’m about to say will hinder our future conversations or advice I may seek at any point. I’m sorry if I got you involved here. There are some fundamental points that everyone is missing and the very things that are getting under my skin.
SOME OF THIS IS BOUND TO COME OFF WRONG B/C I’M BEYOND UPSET AND VERY TIRED.
#1 despite what J is saying his intentions were, read his post. You saying that you are worried about my build does not equate to my doing the right thing or that you think it’s going to be fine. To me that clearly read like he basically wrote off my build was going to fail before it’s even finished. When I called him on it, he spouted off a bunch of speculation and random information that, I’m sorry, was wrong. It perpetuates the myths surrounding an engine combination that have been dis proven time and time again. To stick by the info clearly outdated and proved wrong is just silly and stubborn. He was adamant about ls/vtec failure, unlike you Dan(G2Guru) who acknowledge what is actually fact. When I quoted a source far more knowledgeable he continued on his path, then got all pissed off because (i assume) i may have implied that the reason builds he’s seen or was associated with have failed was because of him. i can apologize for that. I threw out the information you got from honda b/c it’s clearly speculation. If you’re basing your whole argument on that piece of paper, I have to say something.
“There’s no data that’s available to the engineers at Honda R&D that says there’s any difference in the alloy used in the B series blocks, VTEC or non-VTEC.
All of them spec at the same hardness in our own testing.”
More from Larry. Done his own testing.
But I can not, nor will I stand by and be made out to be a newb just b/c of when I joined the site, or my age, when I’ve done my homework. I will also not blindly take advice just because it’s from someone respected on a site if I know for a fact it is false. Period. J you’re wrong about oil squirters man, sorry. They were not put there for lubrication they are to cool the piston crown. Look at their position. They shoot right at the bottom of the piston. That’s to cool it down. Not lubricate it. Furthermore you implied that there were several causes of failure in the ls/vtecs you’ve seen and built but never once told me HOW you determined where they failed. NONE of your posts at any point led me to believe you thought i was doing the right things OR that you thought my build would not fail. Not one. You were more focused on trying to discredit where I was coming from and where I acquired my knowledge. If that wasn’t your intention, you need to take a good long time to learn how to express yourself b/c it came off all wrong.
#2) DB2-R81, if he’s a knowledgeable and respected member that should be listened too maybe instead of calling names and acting all tough, he should have posted some things to show off that knowledge. Instead there isn’t a single post where he has demonstrated he should get my respect, or that information in his brain is worth knowing. I have nothing against old guys. I have something against old guys who believe they should be listened to simply because they are old. If I know you’re wrong, I’m gonna tell you you’re wrong. The bottom line here is he came on here to start shit and succeeded by calling me and my friend names rather than actually contributing to the conversation in the ways it was needed. Take a hint man. Look at your posts. "Hey fresh face, come back when you’ve got some grease under your finger nails. J. has more experience with these engines then you and all your midwest butt buddies combined.
Ignore the help and run off to the Dominican with your boyfriends!"
"You’re only demonstrating your inexperience and ignorance more and more.
Same old story, grow some pubic hair then tell us something we have not heard before.
J.’s conversant enough to speak for himself, and akin, likely won’t waist his time attempting to educate the unreachable."
“Like I have implied all along your dreams and attitude are much larger than your brain. Take a step back, do your thing, then tell us about it, that is all.”
“Keep the rhythm going there butt buddy, your making my day!”
“Never said it was correct, and I am not looking at it you and him are! Daaaa…when are we going to talk about the main oil galley, crank oiling passages, and oil filter pads?”
“How about go fuck your self, specific enough!”
This is how he acts like a respected member of the site, and how he acts when called out.
You obviously command some respect around here. You made a bad move. You assumed we didn’t know anything. Then you proceeded with the childish comments. Knowledge called you on that as well, and we have yet to see anything but.
How in the world you command any respect after this I will never understand.
#3) You guys seem to want to swing from J and DB’s nuts talking about how they are the go to guys when it comes to building hondas. Can you seriously read the posts and tell me you still think these things. I’m by no means an expert but I have been around these cars long enough, and done enough reading to know when I’m being fed a bunch of crap. You should think about how these two reacted when they were called out. Archon you think I should listen to these guys after they way they approached and talked to me and my friend? Seriously?
Bottom line, I’m not some pushover newb like you all thought I was, nor is ricecake. You made the assumption that I didn’t know what I was doing, and my thread was to get advice and seek help. Wrong. I wanted to show off a bit b/c this is the first major build I’ve done for my personal car, b/c I finally have the time to do it. I’ve spent a year building up the funds and knowledge to do it, I’ve consulted what are in my opinion the best minds of the times, and the guys who have built what I’m building down to the last bolt, and been successful with it.I am not opposed to advice, but if the advice is thrown in my face, and in my research I know it to be wrong, I will not just swallow it b/c I’m told to or b/c I should simply because of who it’s coming from.
J and DB2, It’s going to be very hard to change my opinion of you two. You guys ruined whatever credibility and/or respect you could have received with the way you both approached me. IF that gets me on everyone’s shit list fine. If that ruins my own credibility b/c people would rather listen to you two, fine. It’s their choice.
I am sorry I lost my temper. But now I really don’t care anymore. The high I had over this build is completely gone thanks to a few who got all upset when they were told they were wrong.
I am willing to move past this and give it a shot again. I like this site a lot. I wanted to contribute the knowledge I’ve acquired over the last 5 years of really digging into Hondas. I still want to. This escalated nearly to a point of no return. Let’s not cross it.
I would like to get the shortblock done, and I would like to get the valve to valve clearances checked as well. If we’re lucky and the dowels show up I might put the whole thing together.
Hey, I like you have butted heads with DB2 before. In fact it is nearly legend on this site. But it was what it was… an argument. I argue with friends all of the time… but in the end… we’re still friends (most of the time). But I have met both J. and Marc (DB2) in person and let me tell you although the name calling got a little out of control, (which often does on forums where there is no face to face interaction) they are both very knowledgeable stand-up guys 
.
J and I are alike in many ways and I know he was not saying your LS/VTEC was doomed to failure. He just wanted to spend your money on the Honda equation of reliability (B18C1 or B18C5) which has worked very well for both him and Marc. Correct me if I’m wrong J, but his point of view is why spend money on “questionable” reliability when you could have proven reliability for a small amount more. I understand the argument and still recommend B18C5 or poor mans ITR if the customer can afford it. But I also know that LS/VTEC or CR/VTEC can be a lot of bang for the buck so I keep the option open.
I know I’m long winded so I’ll wrap this up. I wish you nothing but the best of luck with your build. I’m sure it will give you years of good use. Just make sure to break it in properly and use a non-detergent dino oil for the first 500 miles. You have my e-mail if you need any help. :read:
[QUOTE=G2guru;1996701]Hey, I like you have butted heads with DB2 before. In fact it is nearly legend on this site. But it was what it was… an argument. I argue with friends all of the time… but in the end… we’re still friends (most of the time). But I have met both J. and Marc (DB2) in person and let me tell you although the name calling got a little out of control, (which often does on forums where there is no face to face interaction) they are both very knowledgeable stand-up guys .
J and I are alike in many ways and I know he was not saying your LS/VTEC was doomed to failure. He just wanted to spend your money on the Honda equation of reliability (B18C1 or B18C5) which has worked very well for both him and Marc. Correct me if I’m wrong J, but his point of view is why spend money on “questionable” reliability when you could have proven reliability for a small amount more. I understand the argument and still recommend B18C5 or poor mans ITR if the customer can afford it. But I also know that LS/VTEC or CR/VTEC can be a lot of bang for the buck so I keep the option open.
I know I’m long winded so I’ll wrap this up. I wish you nothing but the best of luck with your build. I’m sure it will give you years of good use. Just make sure to break it in properly and use a non-detergent dino oil for the first 500 miles. You have my e-mail if you need any help. :read:[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
wow… just, wow…:shrug:
I like this thread. A lot. And by a lot I mean I want to have secks with it. And by it I mean .J.
:squint:
Poor innocent and straight up iceman, cry me a river, pay back is a bitch.
Well maybe you remember these kind words you wrote a few weeks ago, pleasant aren’t they?
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189585
“You’re too high strung.”
“you are a complete and total idiot. if you had no intention of buying the head why the hell did you open your mouth?”
“you completely full of sh*t or just trying to be”
“you wasted bandwidth and what few braincells you had left being a total douche bag”
You and your buddies started the bad mouthing and attitude way before I returned the favor.
Now you are dealing with some of your own medicine.
I would invite anyone to read that thread in its entirety. You ask for pictures and if it has been machined, again playing semantics as you apparently love to do, and then insinuate that the man is a criminal all the while you apparently have no interested in buying the head.
Why ask for pictures?
Why ask about machine work?
Were you just trying to waste his time?
And his buddies did not start the badmouthing at all. You clearly started attacking Brian in his for sale thread.
Seriously man, you sure do seem to be digging deep for dirt. Feel free to answer the questions posed in this thread, otherwise please stop littering it.
Can’t deal with the dirt?
Learn not to throw it to begin with!
:rant::giggle::hyper::excite:
holy crap that was alot of reading…
ima go play call of duty now…
wow haha
oh kevin psssh call of duty, KILLZONE 2! lol
by the way, whats up marc haha
[QUOTE=DB2-R81;1996772]Poor innocent and straight up iceman, cry me a river, pay back is a bitch.
Well maybe you remember these kind words you wrote a few weeks ago, pleasant aren’t they?
http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189585
“You’re too high strung.”
“you are a complete and total idiot. if you had no intention of buying the head why the hell did you open your mouth?”
“you completely full of sh*t or just trying to be”
“you wasted bandwidth and what few braincells you had left being a total douche bag”
You and your buddies started the bad mouthing and attitude way before I returned the favor.
Now you are dealing with some of your own medicine.[/QUOTE]
Payback? My own medicine? You starting shit again in that thread and I defended my friend. You deserve every bit of badmouthing you recieve. You haven’t done anything but make yourself out to be a fool. In that thread you once again attacked my friend picking out semantics, and then called him a crook. You hounded him in his for sale thread when you in fact had NO intention of buying his parts. Why? B/c you are a doucebag. This is your M.O. You come into threads and harrass people b/c you think you can get away with anyhting you want. You spit out bullshit and then get called on it, at which time you backpeddle. Dude nothing you’ve said carries any weight. You ARE a complete and total idiot, and every time you post you prove it. You aren’t finding any dirt that’s worth anything. You keep going though, you’re just making yourself out to be more and more of an idiot.
Iceman -
The bottom line here is he came on here to start shit and succeeded by calling me and my friend names rather than actually contributing to the conversation in the ways it was needed.
You guys ruined whatever credibility and/or respect you could have received with the way you both approached me. IF that gets me on everyone’s shit list fine. If that ruins my own credibility b/c people would rather listen to you two, fine. It’s their choice.
First and foremost, I want to compliment you. You seem like a smart guy and I like the way you do things. Especially the researching and wanting a perfect build. Also, you’re very passionate, cleary. That is awesome and I have respect for you on that end.
I don’t understand the two quotes above though. You’re talking like J. and Db2-r81 are one in the same. If that was the case, than you and Ricecake are one in the same and I really don’t like Ricecakes attitute, he has been just as bad as Db2-R81 with his name calling. As a matter of fact, Ricecake was the one that got offended by this of all things. Ricecake is clearly passionate as well, but he obviously stepped on some toes.
I’m more referring to the fact that if you look at a Honda head and block you can see how the two are specifically designed to work together by disapating heat and flexing/dispersing vibrations under high/heavy loads. An LS-V will never benefit from that kind of original design so for about the last 5 years I’ve had the oppinion that regardless of what you do to a thorough LS-V build sometimes it’s just cheaper to invest in that block now rather then deal with the long term issues of two totally different designs trying to work together.
My comments are based on the fact that you clearly are trying to build a project the right way, which is admirable, but sometimes our industry has pushed a bad premise off as a good long term solution to a problem which doesn’t really exist anymore; considering the pricing of B18C blocks today.
Just something to think about from an old guy, thats all.
J.
I don’t see any attacks in there. I don’t see any name calling or douchebag comments. I might see SUBTLE hints that your build could POSSIBLY FAIL. No doomed for failure comments. I see advice. Did you want the advice? no. Are you on a forum board? yes. Take the advice with a grain of salt. We all know you’ve done your research, good for you. No reason to get your buddy on here to start the fire with this comment.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Seriously the piston spuitrers are a bone of contention for you? Really. Care to explain the rationale behind that one.
Care to point out theses amazing differences in the head to block contact between that of an LS block and B18C block, because I sure have not noticed them. The only difference I have ever noticed is the presence of the VTEC oil galley on the B18C block versus the lack of one on an LS block. Even that is not a big deal. It has been found that feeding extra oil to the head via a larger external line can help aid in keeping the valve train cooler under high RPM.
I love how the myth of the LS-VTEC being unreliable still exists to this day.
That comment alone started it all. It is childish first of all. Second of all, it is basically calling J. an idiot. Subtle hints. Just like J.'s possible subtle hints of possible long term failure on your build. However J. didn’t say, “What the fuck are you doing? etc etc” Get it? He was trying to help in a professional, mature way. Again, take it with a grain of salt as you’ve done your research. There is no reason to get all riled up just to prove a point, there are other ways to go about things. As Ricecake has stated, nobody is a know it all and they would be a fool to think so. J. wasn’t shoving any information down your throat and I didn’t see any viscious comments in his initial posts.
PS - I’ve been around this forum longer than everyone thinks, I just had to take a lot of time off due to my circumstances.
XOXO
Blake