[QUOTE=CV-DA9;1846313]MY thread has officially gone into the fcken shtter…
if you and your mom and brother and whoever the f*ck is gonna bicker, don’t do it in my thread…
i posted and gave some useful advice for ppl and all i get is 3 pages of arguing and difference of opinions…
it’s ok that you guys/gals give reasons and advice…but once you start getting annoyed and b*tchy amongst one another, PLEASE, PLEASE take it somewhere else…
Well, phatcardesignz was having some caster issues with these arms, so I went and took some pics and a measurement, because I was a little worried. If you want some more numbers let me know and I’ll go get em’.
My eyes may be deceiving me, but it looks as if the caster issue is proportional to the amount of camber correction dialed in.
Leaving more negative camber looks as though it’ll keep caster much closer to where it normally is. Of course, a good alignment shop SHOULD notify a customer if it’s being thrown out of spec and figure out a course of action to correct it.
Thank you for those photos. big help. If possible, could you maybe set the right arm of one type on top of the left arm of the other to compare where the balljoint threads are on both with the arm mounts in the same location?
I took MrPenny’s pictures and did a quick overlay. Note that the two arms don’t line up perfectly at the bottom where the other bushings go… this mirrors my personal install experience. However, my OEM bushings were able to slide on their sleeves and they still fit just fine. I wasn’t thrilled with that aspect, but meh.
Beyond that, you can see that Armed Ferret is right… the caster will change depending on where the camber is set. I would assume that skunk2 did some R&D on that, and set the angle of adjustment for the ball joint to something that wouldn’t destroy caster settings.
But the important thing to notice is that the ball joints are going to be MAYBE half an inch apart if you set the camber to stock settings with these, and I can’t imagine that would affect caster to the degree that phatcardesignz is having. Furthermore, like I said in the other thread, I had an alignment after I installed mine, and I was back there with the tech, and we didn’t touch anything with the caster at all… it was already in spec. And furtherfurthermore, my wheels are perfectly centered and my car tracks straight and true and otherwise handles beautifully, on track and off.
thanks greg. my gimp-fu is severely lacking, but i’m focusing more on linux and networking for the time being.
i’d have to agree with your thoughts. my caster wasn’t thrown all out of whack at all when i put in the skunk2 kit. having nothing in the engine bay may be skewing my results, but i consider that a moot point. :giggle:
i’ve a feeling that phatcardesignz might be having other suspension-related issues, like bent forks or perhaps a slightly bent subframe that’s causing his issues. or maybe his car just doesn’t like the skunk2 arms. haven’t looked at it personally, so i can’t say for sure. there’s always eleventy billion factors that can affect it.
Yea I’m with you guys on this one. I think phatcardesignz might have underlying issue. I took a couple more pics the other night to compare where the ball joint sits at both limits, and a comparison of the mounting points.
thanks for the extra pics mrpenny. i hope phatcar’s able to figure out what the unseen problem is and get it fixed, but your photos have helped convince me that it’s not the fault of the skunk2 stuff.
[QUOTE=Armed Ferret;1927065]thanks for the extra pics mrpenny. i hope phatcar’s able to figure out what the unseen problem is and get it fixed, but your photos have helped convince me that it’s not the fault of the skunk2 stuff.
i can understand why he’d be upset though.[/QUOTE]
No problem. I was just curious what was going on too. Mine will be going on in the next couple of weeks, so I’ll keep everyone posted on the word
I just saw all of this… I haven’t had a chance to pull mine back off again, since school has been kicking my @ss the past couple of weeks. I’ll have them off and have it back on the alignment rack by the end of the week. Mine is maxed out and my car is slammed (unfortunately, I can’t raise it with my current setup). I didn’t have crazy caster before I put the arms on either, and my car has been on the alignment rack probably over a dozen times due to my brother working at an Acura dealer and being able to do it for free.
From my adjustments of the radius rods, a half inch of movement will shove the tire all the way to the front or rear of the fender, so I would think a half inch at the balljoint would have some effect on the caster as well. I’m going to do a very close comparison with the SPC balljoints that I had on before (that are most likely being put back on). The only thing that could even possibly be bent would be the rear subframe. I’ve got an extra one of those, but changing it out is no easy task and I would have thought that my caster would have been really far out before if that was it (and the wheels would have not been centered in the fenderwell).
I’ll keep you all posted.
This was Skunk2’s response to my questions, so I don’t think they even did any R&D on the DA, yet.
Thank you for contacting the Helpdesk at Skunk2 Racing.
You are correct that those particular arms were in fact designed around the EF chassis upper A arms.
The part that puzzles me is that we have sold well over 1000 of these kits since their debut 4 months ago and this is the first I have heard of this issue.
I have brought your issue up with our R&D department. They are taking steps to investigate the differences between the EF and DA upper A arms.
You can wait to see what they come up with, or you can return the arms to the retailer you purchased them from for a full refund.
I apologize for the inconvenience.
If you have any more questions regarding Skunk2 products or policy please let us know.
Brian Nichols
Customer Service
Skunk2 Racing
2050 5th St.
Norco, Ca
I honestly dont see what the big problem is. Yes granted that the toe is a major problem once these are installed, but once an alignment is performed then everything is perfect. I cant be happier with my camber arms… No more chewed out tires for me!!
Phat, any update on your caster issue? I agree that there seems to be an underlying issue as well. It seems weird that just changing the ball joint or the arm created such a problem for you. Any bent parts…like maybe lower control arm that wasn’t an issue before? Just asking…anyway, I’m getting ready to install my Sk2 kit after installing the adjustable kind at the back of the stock control arm and it really not correcting my camber issue. After that install, the Caster was great and Toe was “MEH!” but there just wasn’t enough adjustment to pull it all completely true. Those, by the way, SUCK ASS at trying to adjust with an extremely lowered car on the alignment rack. I think I’ll be okay after seeing some replies that all went well on other cars with this Sk2 kit. I’ll post how things went after getting the kit on and how the adjustment went.
CV, thanks for posting! Very helpful! It had me laughing for a little while…I’m just sorry it was at your threads expense.
I pulled them back off today. There is a half inch difference in the ball joint placement when compare to my stock ones with the SPC ball joints (as already noted in the pics posted by mrpenny). I didn’t bother trying to lay out stuff to measure it exactly, since it looked almost identical to the pics already posted. That half inch shift may not be the only difference as there may also be some other angles in the Skunk2 arm that are changed that make the problem worse. “Furthermore, Skunk2 utilizes a design that corrects the balljoint angle on lowered cars” (http://www.skunk2.com/suspension-3.php?detail_id=33). Most people probably don’t have the kit maxed out and still have 3 degrees of camber or have short stroke coilovers where they could see the caster angle either. I think my setup probably magnifies the problem. I still need to get an alignment and sort through all of my pics… so, I’ll probably do a fairly detailed writeup sometime next week.
WOW! Did I read that correctly…maxed out and still 3 degrees camber??? How low is your car? Laying seat rails. Just kidding but it really does seem like you have another problem to contend with and excuse me for asking a stupid question, but is this negative camber we’re talking about? I did see the pics that mrpenny laid out (thanks, mrpenny!) and it does raise question but I’m sure with having to basically increase the angle of the arm to accomodate an adj. ball joint didn’t cause the caster to go to the extreme of not being able to be corrected easily if any was needed at all. However, looking at the pic a little more in detail, I could see where it might cause a fitment issue but not enough to cause a major caster problem like you’re experiencing. I’d like to put it on a RayTech Measuring system and see the outcome. I just hope you get the problem worked out. I’ve got my Teg lowered on Skunk2 2.5" drop springs and Tokico “Blues” but the front adjustable kit (the four separate adjustable kind) couldn’t pull the negative camber out completely. The best I was able to achieve is -1.7 on the left front and -1.1 on the right front. Caster has always been in spec and toe was out just a touch but easily corrected. I’m hoping that this Skunk2 kit will correct the camber problem for good and ease adjustment issues on the rack. Good luck! I look forward to seeing your post.
With the Skunk2 camber kit installed in its maxed out position, I had +3.8 degrees of caster (adjusted as well as possible using my Full-Race radius rods - any more adjustment would have put the wheel wayyy back in the fenderwell and caused rubbing issues when turning). I also had -3 degress of camber (might have been closer to 3.5… I’ll have to go back and check if I still have the printout). Just to prove that they were installed correctly, I swapped sides and ended up with -5 deg caster and -4.5 deg camber. The only positive thing that I have to say about them is that they did actually clear the inner fender when installed correctly.
I just got it all realigned again today with the stock arms with SPC balljoints. I have 0.9 deg of caster (close enough to the desired 1 deg and totally within the spec of 1.0 +/-1.0). My camber is currently 2.2 degrees with the SPC kit maxed out. It drives so nice with the correct caster… until the arms bottom out because of the protruding nut and balljoint.
I could visually see exactly what was going on when installing them. When caster is this far out, you can see the angle of the spindle in relation to the strut. I also got the unfun adventure of driving the car with the rediculous amount of caster. With the excessive positive caster, it tended to understeer, would tend to pull the steering wheel straight, and would track on any groove the tires could possibly grab onto. With the excessive negative caster, it tended to oversteer, the steering wheel was excessively loose feeling, it would turn in whatever direction the road surface sloped, and it was just all over the road in general.
I will be posting pics when I get a chance to sort through them and get them uploaded.
Did you read what I wrote in my last post at all? I could only adjust mine down to +3.8 with a Full-Race crossmember. If you are not maxing out the Skunk2’s, you might get a little closer, since the balljoint is closer to the stock location at the other end of its adjustment range. I don’t know what other people’s caster is, but if you are using this kit and have it adjusted very far out, there is no way you have 1 degree of caster.
Sorry PHATCAR . . . I was pretty beat last night. I read your posts over again and it made more sense. The pictures/drawings helped out alot. That’s pretty drastic (atleast to me it is). So, bottom line is the Skunk2s aren’t exactly a good solution of a camber kit. Thanks PHATCAR, I appreciate all the info.
Unreal, Phat! I would say that your assessment of it being a magnified problem with your set-up is an understatement. Well, again, good luck in figuring this one out. I’ll look forward to your upcoming post. I’m starting the install this evening so I’ll let you know the outcome as well. Thanks again!
