whats better to turbo a LS (B18A) or a Gs-R (B18C). I had Asked this shop here in Tx. and he said that the gsr will be better cause the ls is limited. IM lookin on making about 400 to 500 hp daily driving … this is some what of the plan i want to do for my ls… oh yeah and he said thats why the drag guys dont run dohc non-vtec they run v-tec . and i do see that but lmk what you guys think
Head: everything from the cams to the springs, vavles, retainers. p/p 3anglev
bottom end : dart block 84.5 bore with stroker kit and no its not too thin dart blocks are hell of strong…oh and the compression about 9:2
and I’ll have everything else from spark, fuel , air ,suspension and so on…
vtec will make more power because of the vtec head. you need to do a lot of port/polishing and modding to a ls head just to come close to a stock vtec head.
You can make 400-500hp on either one…The question is what engine do you have right now, and what is your budget? if no budget and you don’t have the B18C, then get that.
Well you see i have no budget and im running an LS right now, but the guy i talked to said that it wouldn’t be reliable. i dont see how if im going to run a fully built LS. I already have the head port/polished, 3 angle vavle, and performance vavles… i just dont have the springs and retainers, cams and cam gears.cause i dont know what im gonna do yet… and im going to get a stroker kit and a Dart block and everything from fuel, spark, and air…
And also why dont drag people run fully built Ls instead… they only run v-tec engines
So if it only has to do with the head then i already have a good head…
can you push the vtec motor more than the LS
for those of you that posted thanks for the info
with your head P&P you can come pretty close to a stock V-tec head, but also take in account that I said stock Vtec head. you do the same job to a v-tec head as you did to your LS and you’ll get more of a gain from it. Don’t be discouraged using a LS head or Block. many are doing it and many are making big horsepower gains from them. just look here. over 500 pages discussing it. I am personally using a LS head on my build, and block to get to my 400hp goal. I based my build around that without going V-tec, and it should be pretty easy. There’s a 2lt all LS turbo, that I have the dyno to, that is putting out over 600hp…so with that said, anything is possible.
for us LS-T guys we run a p75 head for the most gains. it’s been proven time and time again this head flows better then the pr4 head. often u can get the cfm much higher with cams and upgraded valve train to rev to 8000rpm. do this and u won’t be sorry u stayed non-vtec. plus u can always turn the boost up lol
hey yeah guys…thanks… i guess that guy at the shop i talked to just discouraged me cause he was just talking about v-tec and people use it cause its better and it gets better gains the the Ls is a not so good engine to build…So I guess i’ll be able to push my car a little harder cause i’ma get a Dart block oh yeah and a stroker kit Thanks again guys!!! i want about 20psi
why a dart block? i’d suggest to just sleeve ur b18 block. you know u can get the b18 that will bring it close to a 2.0L with a stroker kit and sleeves? a stroker kit and boost do not go well together. seems like you need to do more research on boost and which motor you really want to run. i hope ur budget is huge cuz that block and boosting it properly isn’t going to be cheap.
Just sleeve the b18 bottom end and bore it to 84mm to get 2.0L. THat’s all I got with a vtec head and I’m pushing over 500whp… Don’t need an overpriced dart block
the guy you talked to is a fucking idiot.
unless he doesn’t count the close to 1,000 people (easily) on honda-tech running turbo LS’s for well over 5 years. cause yeah if you throw them out, then i guess it’s not reliable. :roll:
thats for sure. ive built several cars and i must say thats one of the best things about hondas… you DONT need an aftermarket block or crank to stand up to a lot of boosted power. good sleeves, rods and pistons… thats all you need. compare that to a 5.0 stang that splits the block in half under the 500rwhp level boosted. you DO need a dart block there.
on another note, i can see where the shop got off telling you the ls is limited and in theory they can make a case for it. however, in the grand scheme of reality thats simply not the case. either motor can make 600+ at the wheels. is 600whp not enough for you? 700 is ludicrous. a 350whp car that hooks will beat a lot of the higher whp cars on the street that have traction problems. id shoot for 350whp on a moderate boost on the stock gsr motor with an intake manifold, pistons, rods and sleeves, built properly. you could probably do it with one bar of boost if you chose the right parts and maybe did a valvejob. then if you want to go faster just turn up the boost. 500 wouldnt be a sweat if you chose the right turbo. that said, you could have similar results with a cammed ls motor. whatever you do, choose what cylinder head arrangement you are going to stick with and go with that from the start. that way you dont put money into porting an ls head you are going to ditch later when you could have bought a vtec head for a fraction of that in the first place and improved upon that for the difference. good luck.
I have a question: If you take the B18A have it balanced blue printed and honed. Then add rods and piston and ARP studs can this support 400WHP?
I only ask because I thought the bottom end of the GSR was a better unit. Is that Horsepower level too high for stock sleeves?
also is the non vtec head really that much of a restriction? What types of OEM LS head parts are best for boost,
Not really.
Stock-block LS, 325WHP
Bone stock LS–only aftermarket parts are head studs, IM and cams–335WHP
Stock-sleeve LS, 460WHP
As you can see, it’s a very potent platform.
What types of OEM LS head parts are best for boost,
actually, none of them really are. The cams COULD work okay, but if you’re boosting another 400-500 bucks for quality cams like the Crane Stage 2’s (right now the favorite of many tuners as the powerband is more potent than Crower but with easier idle tuning to boot) isn’t really a bad idea, and will make you a much happier camper in the end.
If you’ll notice in the dyno graphs posted, they all have a similar weak point–the head will only flow so much and then you notice the torque dropping off. even a basic valve job will help to remedy this, but on a vtec head you’ll see a much flatter torque curve.
Ok i want to boost my LS and i already have my head port and polished with a 3 angle vavle job head resurfaced …So im going to stick with my ls …but how many horses can the block take ( B18A) if i kept the stock crank and bored it 83mm and put forged rods and pistons…do you think it would last as long as a stock bored Ls block … Has any ones Ls turboed lasted them years …
And why is mixing a stroker kit with boost a bad thing… even if its tuned is it bad…I plan on having it tuned with a hondata S300 by stoopid at Fast lane in houston…Oh yeah!!! I really want a little over 500hp
83 is too big for stock sleeves to bore out. 81.5 seems to be pretty much the max that you want to bore out stock sleeves and still boost it. beyond that and you’re getting into REALLY dangerous territory. not that it can’t be done, it just shouldn’t.
many folks in the ls/vtec or boosted gsr type setups have been running 600 on stock sleeves with full reliability. it’s all in the tune.
400 on a daily driver with stock sleeves is a walk in the park. just don’t overbore very much if at all.
if you absolutely have to have an 83mm bore, you’ll have to resleeve.
yeah i know i would have to resleeve the block but thats why i wanted the dart block cause on the dart they have two bore sizes 81.5 and 84.5 i was going for the 84.5 bore … it kiond of confused me when i saw on SMOKEINTEGRAS post theres a link were he says" check here " and on honda tech several people posted that they had 84-85mm bored turboed LS’s …well anyways i’m willing to spend the bucks to get good gains… cause i dont want it to be in the back of my head that i might blow the engine with a stock block …i think i’ll be more at ease knowing i have a heavy duty block … thanks for all the info guys!!!
yeah, the dart’s a heavy duty block all right.
so heavy duty it leaks oil and/or water a majority of the time.
they aren’t machined exactly right for some OEM plugs and seals. you WILL have issues getting them to not leak. you’re much better off having your stock block resleeved by golden eagle or benson’s. less than half the price of a dart block, and more reliable.
oh alright… you know that makes since cause when honda tuning magazine
had a article of a b20 Dart block with a vtec head but they had to do some machining to make it fit and other custom stuff and i was like wtf i thought they were compatible with each other well i know they stock ones are anyways so i thought the after market ones would be the same…huh go figure… well what other after market block is good and hell of strong if any
and do you have the links for golden eagle and benson’s and how do you say they are more reliable than the dart blocks
why in the hell do you feel you NEED an aftermarket block? jesus man, are you building some sort of SFWD monster here?
there is no reason to go beyond a resleeved honda block. aftermarket sleeves can take in the neighborhood of 60+ psi of boost and keep on ticking–why in the WORLD do you need anything more?
as for golden eagle and benson’s, golden eagle is www.goldeneaglemfg.com and the best pricing i’ve seen for their sleeving is through camp1320.com at about 800 bucks or so.
for benson’s, they don’t have a website that i know of, but you can get the sleeving through laskey racing at www.laskeyracing.com and it’s right around a grand. best sleeve job out there if you ask me (which you are, so there you go).
Seriously, there’s absolutely NO REASON to use a dart block unless you want to piss away $2k on a completely bare block that’s still gonna need at least a hone job.